Date   

Re: DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

Kristen James Eberlein
 

Chris, thanks for chiming in. Lots of food for thought in your response.

I did want to quickly say that this thread is not only for "true old timers"; I'd like to hear from everyone. What do you think are DITA successes? Failures? Pain points? It would be good to keep the discussion within the context of a retrospective of how well DITA has accomplished what it was designed for.

I probably would not qualify as a "true old timer in DITA." My training is as a historian, and I migrated into technical communication when I went to work at IBM (as a contractor) in 2001. While I was part of a beta test of DITA in 2002, I did not start using DITA on a daily basis until 2005. I joined OASIS as an individual member in 2007, in order to be part of the Editorial Board for dita.xml.org, which was then a very active user site. In 2008, I became active with the DITA TC ...

Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

On 11/22/2019 6:50 AM, despopoulos_chriss via Groups.Io wrote:
I'm not a true old-timer in DITA, but I've been around markup since before XML (can you say Sounds Great Maybe Later). I think for your list of requirements DITA was designed to address, the results are generally good.  I will say that this one requirement has surprised me in practice:
"Ease of sharing source content with business partners"


Re: DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

despopoulos_chriss
 

I'm not a true old-timer in DITA, but I've been around markup since before XML (can you say Sounds Great Maybe Later). I think for your list of requirements DITA was designed to address, the results are generally good.  I will say that this one requirement has surprised me in practice:
"Ease of sharing source content with business partners"

My experience has not been so good. 

It's hard to break through silos within the enterprise.  Other teams don't naturally lean toward DITA, if they even know what it is.  The common information tooling (WIKIs, Slack, SalesForce, and other content monoliths) don't generally play well with DITA, and in fact some might see incentives not to play at all.  There are notable exceptions (ZoomIn for example).  But what I see as lacking is an ecosystem where DITA integrates easily with other systems.  Let's assume ZoomIn is perfect in every way (it could happen).  I still wouldn't be able convince my enterprise to switch from SalesForce/Atlassian/Drupal/Whatever.  There's too much inertia there.  So I need the integration ecosystem.

Likewise with cross-enterprise sharing.  Imagine my delight when I entered into an OEM relationship, and learned the other party used DITA.  Imagine my surprise when they announced that they cannot use my DITA in their publishing tool chain unless it LIVES in that system for the full lifecycle.  That's a complete non-starter for me. For them, tweaking the system to let me pour my content in on demand is too expensive.  I think this is related to the cost of a large-scale DITA deployment.  I'm in a start-up, and we're low-budget.  But high-budget systems seem to calcify, and the cost to break out of that is prohibitive.  Also, it seems to me that the high-budget vendors have an incentive to promote this calcification.  So even with DITA to DITA, you can run into a silo problem that is similar to the one I mention above.

I think you could quantify the enterprise silo problem by tracking how many DITA deployments reach out of the tech pubs department, and then look at how they achieve that.  Not sure how to track the cross-enterprise issues.  How many enterprises would share that kind of intel?  And also, how common is the need, really?  Aren't we more in a world of big fish eats little fish?  That's not sharing, it's absorbing...  A different issue (that DITA does indeed streamline).

I will say (message to Michael) that we do integrate directly with web tech.  We transform to HTML in the browser.  Not only can we display content in a specific browser app, but we use the same technique to display content in the product GUI.  So we can single-source between PDF, HTML, and micro-content in the GUI.  And we can filter or otherwise modify the content at run time.  I'm surprised this isn't happening more, and I expect LwDITA to promote this approach. 

I think the next step from this is open-source DITA editing in the browser.  It's already there for common Markdown, so it shouldn't be hard to do it for DITA. 


Re: CSS for <dl> definition list in HTML5 #CSS #HTML

despopoulos_chriss
 

How to use <dlhead> elements in an expanding list?  There are lots of variables here.  Depending on how you visually format the expanding list, a head could make sense.  OTOH, if you present it more like a bullet list with expanding content underneath, then I see your problem.  Another factor is how important the head is.  If it just says TERM / DEFINITION, well then, who needs it?  But if you load something significant into the head, you have to work out a way to keep it.  Maybe have different outputclass values, where one formats the list in a way that makes the heads work, and the other just discards the head.  Maybe load alternative text into attributes in the head elements, and use that???

This is where it all gets to be fun, IMO.  Online docs have more than just a "look".  They have behavior, which is every bit as informative as the look.  It's a new dimension to play with, and you have to put everything into meaningful relationships.  (Sounds like a personal problem!!!)


Re: DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

Michael Priestley
 

Information architecture was part of DITA's original requirements - tying link management and navigation management to a common structural guide (DITA maps). That one I think we got mostly right, at least at the microsite level. I've got thoughts about DITA at the larger site level, where I think the standard is not necessarily a barrier, but maybe the way we're using it sometimes is.

One place where the promise hasn't panned out (yet, at least) is direct integration with web tech. At the time, XML was beginning to be supported for direct rendering in browsers, and that was definitely a trend we expected to continue. We hoped DITA might one day be a native web format, and direct rendering in the browser was one of our first use cases.

That said, we haven't given up on that yet - LWDITA's HDITA format is HTML5-valid, and still pursuing that dream.

Michael Priestley, Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM)
Information Architect, Marketing Analytics
mpriestl@...




From:        "Kristen James Eberlein" <kris@...>
To:        dita-users@groups.io
Date:        2019/11/21 09:10 AM
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [dita-users] DITA: Fifteen(+) years old
Sent by:        dita-users@groups.io




Thanks for responding, Rudolfo.
I'm interested in trying to tease out how well DITA has answered the business requirements it was designed to address (some of which I think we take for granted in 2019) and what new things have emerged over the past 15 years.
Requirement DITA designed to address
I think of the following; can others add to the list?
  • Multichannel publishing
  • Effective reuse
  • Efficient, lower-cost translation
  • Ease of sharing source content with business partners
  • Expense of developing and maintaining proprietary XML grammars and the tools to work with them
Developments NOT on peoples mind 15-20 years ago
I can think of the following; can others add to the list?
  • Rise of Git and DevOps
  • Trend towards continuous integration
  • Development new career roles: Information architect, Metadata specialist
How well has DITA lived up to its promises?
Fairly well, I think. I do lack data and a method to quantify it. (Any ideas, here?)
One thing that I think have been extremely successful is growth of a very rich environment of DITA tools:
  • Editors
  • CCMS
  • Quality analysis and control applications
  • PDF rendering engines
  • Delivery platforms
  • Translation utilities
Yes, I do wish that there were more alternatives to DITA-OT -- and that more people contributed to DITA-OT! Folks might want to take a look at the video of my 2016 presentation at DITA-OT Day: https://www.oxygenxml.com/events/2016/dita-ot_day.html#Long_term_DITA-OT_planning
Other?
Hoping to hear from others in our community ...
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)





Re: How is group.io working out for you? #admin

Rodolfo M. Raya
 

Groups.io works fine for me. Haven't noticed any delay. 

Regards,
Rodolfo M. Raya

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kristen James Eberlein <kris@...> wrote:

I'd really like to know. A few quick thoughts from me:

  • For me, there seems to be a big lag between when messages appear on the Web site and when they reach my e-mail client. Others?
  • Yes, I'm working to see if we can get the missing message from between late October and early November added.
  • I like the new Web interface. It's cleaner, has no ads, and moderators have been adding tags to the messages as they are posted. It did take me QUITE a while to realize that I could toggle between viewing 1) All messages (toggle Messages), and 2) Messages sorted by thread (toggle Topic). This view shows the number of messages in the thread.

If you have not been to the Web site, here is a screen capture:


--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)




How is group.io working out for you? #admin

Kristen James Eberlein
 

I'd really like to know. A few quick thoughts from me:

  • For me, there seems to be a big lag between when messages appear on the Web site and when they reach my e-mail client. Others?
  • Yes, I'm working to see if we can get the missing message from between late October and early November added.
  • I like the new Web interface. It's cleaner, has no ads, and moderators have been adding tags to the messages as they are posted. It did take me QUITE a while to realize that I could toggle between viewing 1) All messages (toggle Messages), and 2) Messages sorted by thread (toggle Topic). This view shows the number of messages in the thread.

If you have not been to the Web site, here is a screen capture:


--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)


Re: DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

Kristen James Eberlein
 

Thanks for responding, Rudolfo.

I'm interested in trying to tease out how well DITA has answered the business requirements it was designed to address (some of which I think we take for granted in 2019) and what new things have emerged over the past 15 years.

Requirement DITA designed to address

I think of the following; can others add to the list?

  • Multichannel publishing
  • Effective reuse
  • Efficient, lower-cost translation
  • Ease of sharing source content with business partners
  • Expense of developing and maintaining proprietary XML grammars and the tools to work with them

Developments NOT on peoples mind 15-20 years ago

I can think of the following; can others add to the list?

  • Rise of Git and DevOps
  • Trend towards continuous integration
  • Development new career roles: Information architect, Metadata specialist

How well has DITA lived up to its promises?

Fairly well, I think. I do lack data and a method to quantify it. (Any ideas, here?)

One thing that I think have been extremely successful is growth of a very rich environment of DITA tools:

  • Editors
  • CCMS
  • Quality analysis and control applications
  • PDF rendering engines
  • Delivery platforms
  • Translation utilities

Yes, I do wish that there were more alternatives to DITA-OT -- and that more people contributed to DITA-OT! Folks might want to take a look at the video of my 2016 presentation at DITA-OT Day: https://www.oxygenxml.com/events/2016/dita-ot_day.html#Long_term_DITA-OT_planning

Other?

Hoping to hear from others in our community ...

Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)


Translation management with file-system-based editing/publishing #translation

Frank Dissinger
 

Sorry for my late reply. I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread for their help. You have provided very helpful information. I will have to deal with this subject later, as currently I have deadlines to meet.


Thank you to:

  • Sascha
  • Radu
  • Stefan
  • Rodolfo
  • Elizabeth
  • Ray
  • Kristen
  • Ed
  • Thomas
  • Wim
  • Jang
  • Bernard

Regards,

Frank




Am 15.11.2019 um 19:03 schrieb Frank Dissinger:

Hi Ed,

Yes, of course, you're right...  It depends on your approach.

If you just let the LSP (translation agency) do everything, then why bother about managing translations? The translations are stored in their TMS system and they can reuse them for the next source file update. The only thing I then would do is make a copy of all my DITA files and store them under a milestone name. This allows me to integrate changes to the translation (which need to be made in a revision cycle) while at the same time continuing to edit the source dita files.

However, if you want to keep the translation memory in house, then the XLIFF approach seems to be appropriate.

In my case, I write the source files in English and a LSP provides the Japanese translation.5 For some projects, I also create a German translation myself, usually with a TMS (Transit NXT), but sometimes not -- which seems to be a bad idea...

Regards,
Frank



Am 15.11.2019 um 16:32 schrieb etudsbery:

Hi there,

 

I translate to German and Japanese while using Framemaker.

 

I let the translation agency handle the pain in this instance.

 

I have a top-level ditamap. I make an archive of this using the Dita-fmx >>Utilities>>Create archive functionality. I send this to the translation agency. When there is a new version I re-create the archive and send this.

 

The translation agency then auto-translate everything they have done before and see what is new, and just translate this. It seems to work OK.

 

Regards,

 

Ed

 

From: dita-users@groups.io <dita-users@groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Dissinger via Groups.Io
Sent: 15 November 2019 15:39
To: dita-users@groups.io
Subject: [dita-users] Translation management with file-system-based editing/publishing

 

Thank you, Kris. I'll take a look at Fluenta when I have some time.

Regards, Frank.

 


 

Am 11.11.2019 um 14:44 schrieb Kristen James Eberlein:

Hi, Frank.

If you add in multiple target languages -- especially if translated at different times -- that's when the scenario becomes difficult to handle without a CCMS.

And your current requirement to use FrameMaker for both authoring and PDF publishing rules out many of the CCMS solutions. (Obviously, AEM has support for FrameMaker, but its price point puts it out of the running for all but large, enterprise companies.)
 
If you have not done so already, take a look at the translation-related tool that Rudolfo Ray's company produces: https://www.maxprograms.com/

Are you open to using XLIFF for translation?

Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

On 11/11/2019 7:49 AM, Frank Dissinger wrote:

I've just done a quick test with oXygen's Translation Package Builder.

 

I understand that this is a tool for just detecting which translation SOURCE files have changed. The tool does not know anything about the translation TARGET files. So, when I set a milestone, the tool assumes that I have translated (or will be translating) the coresponding target files. When it then detects the modified source files, I know which target files (translations) I have to update.

 

Correct or am I missing something?

 

But what if the files get translated into more than one language? One is getting translated now, but the other later... and meanwhile the source files are being modified... ?

 


 

Am 11.11.2019 um 12:32 schrieb Frank Dissinger:

Hi Radu and Sascha,

 

Would the Translation Package Builder add-on also be helpful for me if I did the actual dita file editing outside oXygen? (I usually use FrameMaker, for some tiny changes also Notepad++.)

 

Regards,
Frank

 


 

Am 09.11.2019 um 19:15 schrieb Radu Coravu:

Hi Frank,

Replying to you on the new group.

If you are using Oxygen XML Editor, we created some time ago a translation package builder add-on, it has a readme explaining how it should be used:

https://github.com/oxygenxml/oxygen-dita-translation-package-builder

Regards,

Radu Coravu
Oxygen XML Editor

 


 

Am 11.11.2019 um 09:51 schrieb Sascha.Nothofer@...:

Hi Frank,

the translation package builder add-on for Oxygen XML Editor is perfect to identify changes during milestones in your base language.

Additionally we are using GIT version control to manage our translation files for 7 languages. We have split our DITA project folder into a "translated-topics" GIT repository and a GIT repo for not translated ressources (Illustrations, DITAVALs, DITA-Maps, ...)

In the "translated topics" repo, each translation is located in a language specific GIT branch (never merged anywhere). File names and folder structures are identical in all languages.

We are using GIT version tags to identiify translation milestones in both repositories.

 Pros:

- you have to maintain only one DITA maps structure for all languages

- no manual file management for all translation files

- Easy quick fix and sync of small changes in all languages during authoring. Switch branch to switch language in all Topics opened in Oxygen / XML Editor.

- see changes in orignial languages and translations via GIT commit history

 Cons:

- maybe difficult to publish multi lang publications (never tried to find a solution)

 


 

On 11/8/19 4:09 PM, Frank Dissinger frank.dissinger@... [dita-users] wrote:



Hi list,

I am working with dita files on the file system level, without the use of a CMS. I edit with FrameMaker, publish PDF using DITA-FMx and publish online help from the command line using DITA-OT+plug-ins+scripts.
Until now I have written everything in English, now I also have to create German translations for some projects. This means that I'll have to remember which English files have German counterparts and whether the German translation needs to be updated or not.
Are there any tools or DITA-OT plug-ins for this purpose --- which would still allow me to edit and publish in the way I do now? I do not want to use a CMS system. (I already evaluated DITAToo and VirtualDrive, but this solution did not work out as expected.)

Thank you.
Frank

--

Frank Dissinger

Documentation Manager

....................................................................

CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH

Email frank.dissinger@... | Web www.cgs-oris.com

Address Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany

Phone +49 6182 9626-27 | Fax +49 6182 9626-99

Commercial register Offenbach, HRB no. 21495

Managing directors Bernd Rückert, Andreas Kämmerer, Christoph Thommessen


Re: CSS for <dl> definition list in HTML5 #CSS #HTML

 

Much appreciated!

One of my challenges is how to use the <dlhead> elements. They make sense in a table - but I don't think that we should render them when represented as expanding lists.

--

Katriel Reichman (katriel@...

check out breaking news on the DITA Project at the Method M Blog
Cellular: +972-50-693-6008


Re: CSS for <dl> definition list in HTML5 #CSS #HTML

despopoulos_chriss
 

I guess this isn't exactly what you're looking for (not strictly a CSS solution), but we inherited a number of DLs that need to look like tables. 

We use oXygen CSS transforms to PDF, so we just hook into the custom XSL entry point in the transform and convert the DL into an HTML table there.  You could do the same for your HTML transform, matching a DL that has a given outputclass.  The transform itself is pretty straight forward -- I can share it if you like. 

For our HTML output, we do something similar to Don Day's approach that you referenced...  We transform the DL to produce divs for all the dl components (dl head, dl entry, etc.), and then use CSS to make them look like a table.  This transform is also straight forward.  We don't use the OT for our HTML transforms, so it might be easier for us to add that sort of tweak into our workflow...  We sort of own all our HTML transforms directly.  But I suspect you can inject these sorts of transforms into your workflow for the DLs you want to catch.

Given all that, making these into expanding lists is a cool idea -- never thought of it.  We have some docs where that might really make sense.  Since we're wrapping all the DL components in divs already, it should be straight forward to come up with a CSS/JS implementation for that.

cud


[ANN] Release of Open Source XMLmind DITA Converter v3.7 #XMLmind

Hussein Shafie
 

Release of Open Source XMLmind DITA Converter v3.7.

- Thanks to XMLmind Web Help Compiler v3, the generated Web Help gets a fresh new look, among several other useful enhancements. For example, the Web Help is now “responsive” by default.

- The CSS stylesheet used by default when generating any of the XHTML-based output formats (except Java™ Help) has also been “modernized”.

- Any XHTML-based output format: it's now much easier to customize the look of the XHTML pages generated by ditac. This is done using new XSLT stylesheet parameter custom-css.

More information in https://www.xmlmind.com/ditac/changes.html

--------------------------------------------------------------
What is XMLmind DITA Converter?
--------------------------------------------------------------

XMLmind DITA Converter (ditac for short) is a serious alternative to the
DITA Open Toolkit.

Out of the box, ditac allows to convert the most complex DITA 1.0, 1.1,
1.2 and 1.3 documents to production-quality XHTML 1.0, XHTML 1.1, HTML
4.01, (X)HTML 5, Web Help, Java™ Help, HTML Help, Eclipse Help, EPUB 2,
EPUB 3, PDF, PostScript®, RTF, WordprocessingML (Word 2003+), Office
Open XML (.docx, Word 2007+), OpenDocument (.odt, OpenOffice/LibreOffice
2+).

Like the DITA OT, ditac is free, open source, software.

https://www.xmlmind.com/ditac/


Re: CSS for <dl> definition list in HTML5 #CSS #HTML

Jirka Kosek
 

On 19.11.2019 17:12, Katriel Reichman wrote:
* as an expandable list - where the <dt> element is displayed, and when expanded shows the <dd> element(s) in the <dlentry> element
For expandlable content it's natural to use details element in HTML:

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#the-details-element

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jirka Kosek e-mail: jirka@kosek.cz http://xmlguru.cz
------------------------------------------------------------------
Professional XML and Web consulting and training services
DocBook/DITA customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bringing you XML Prague conference http://xmlprague.cz
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What is the preferred way to align an embedded svg image (<svg-container>)? #SVG

caseydawsonjordan
 

Looking to align an svg image the same way we would align a <image> but I see it has no @align and neither does <fig> so it can't be wrapped in a figure. 

Thanks!


CSS for <dl> definition list in HTML5 #CSS #HTML

 

I would love to get ideas for presenting <dl> definition list in HTML5 as a :
  • as a table (I see https://groups.io/g/dita-users/message/30602 but would love to hear other ideas)
  • as an expandable list - where the <dt> element is displayed, and when expanded shows the <dd> element(s) in the <dlentry> element
  • as a list - but with a way to show ideas for the presentation of the <dlehead> elements:
    <dlhead><dthd>Title DT</dthd><ddhd>Title DD</ddhd></dlhead>
Much thanks!


Re: FrameMaker use with DITA CCMS #FrameMaker #CCMS #translation

teamwis
 

Frank
To rule out Database, it is gonna be hard for you effectively 'manage'
your translation process, unfortunately. with just a matter of XQuery
based work, you shall experience a performance boost, removing your
pains when it comes to where changes go to which specific languages in
DITA documents. Out of curiosity, why you remove a possibility to get
a Database introduced to your practice? In my humbling opinion, after
all, modern IT is somehow inevitably enabled by the database. If cost
is your primary concern, please rest assured that we could help you
out with minimum investments. All you need to decide is to give the DB
tech a shot, specifically the existDB, for example, to help with your
pains. Otherwise, I cannot see you have anything better than a solid
database.

Ray

On 11/18/19, jang <jang@jang.nl> wrote:
Depending on your deal with the translation provider - and whether you are
always working with the same one for the same language - their translation
memory should cover for any already translated materials. You may want to
check on this with the DITA materials before inventing a workflow on your
end that might not give a benefit over something that already exists.

On 11/18/2019 5:24 AM, Frank Dissinger wrote:
"Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and
publishing PDFs."
To be more precise:
I have set up a particular folder structure and some Ant scripts to
automatically publish to various outputs (products, variants for OEM
partners, languages) from the command line using DITA-OT. And I would like
to continue using this method. Therefore my content cannot reside in a
database. Yes, I am mainly using FrameMaker as an editor (and for creating
PDFs), sometimes also just Notepad++, and also oXygen for some tasks
(perhaps I'll use oXygen more in the future...).

What I now need is managing translations. I understand that oXygen's
Translation Package Builder allows me to detect which source files have
changed compared to a baseline, so that I can update the translation. But
I am not sure if that tool will help me if I have translations to more
than one language...

Frank


Am 16.11.2019 um 16:41 schrieb Kristen James Eberlein:
Hi, Stefan.
Thanks for pointing me to the Web page; I did not know that XDocs,
DITAtoo, and Vasont supported FrameMaker; I was more aware of the fact
that neither IXIASOFT or the SDL CCMS product has support for using
FrameMaker for authoring.
According to
https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html
<https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html>:
DITA CCMS
Versions of FrameMaker supported
XDocs
2019 release
DITAToo
2019 release, 12, 11
Vasont 2017 release, 2015 release, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.2
(I am leaving out products that are NOT DITA CCMS.)
Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and
publishing PDFs. Do the above products support that? Is a Server license
for FrameMaker required?
--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com <http://www.eberleinconsulting.com/>
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

-------- Message --------
Subject: Re: [dita-users] Translation management with file-system-based
editing/publishing
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 02:27:52 -0800
From: Stefan Gentz via Groups.Io <gentz=adobe.com@groups.io>
<mailto:gentz=adobe.com@groups.io>
Reply-To: dita-users@groups.io <mailto:dita-users@groups.io>
To: dita-users@groups.io <mailto:dita-users@groups.io>

Hi Kris,

"… rules out many of the CCMS solutions."
Out-of-the-box FrameMaker comes with built-in connectors for Adobe
Experience Manager, DitaExchange, Documentum, SharePoint, and SharePoint
Online.
But there are many more CMS that have an integration with FrameMaker. The
(probably not even complete) list can be found here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html
<https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html>

Cheers,
Stefan
--
Frank Dissinger
Documentation Manager
....................................................................
CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH
Email frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com <mailto:frank.dissinger@cgs-oris.com> |
Web www.cgs-oris.com <http://www.cgs-oris.com/>
Address Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany
Phone +49 6182 9626-27 | Fax +49 6182 9626-99
Commercial register Offenbach, HRB no. 21495
Managing directors Bernd Rückert, Andreas Kämmerer, Christoph Thommessen
<https://www.cgs-oris.com/en/products/oris-x-gamut/>



--
Keep an Exacting Eye for Detail


Re: FrameMaker use with DITA CCMS #FrameMaker #CCMS #translation

 

Depending on your deal with the translation provider - and whether you are always working with the same one for the same language - their translation memory should cover for any already translated materials. You may want to check on this with the DITA materials before inventing a workflow on your end that might not give a benefit over something that already exists.


On 11/18/2019 5:24 AM, Frank Dissinger wrote:
"Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs."
To be more precise:
I have set up a particular folder structure and some Ant scripts to automatically publish to various outputs (products, variants for OEM partners, languages) from the command line using DITA-OT. And I would like to continue using this method. Therefore my content cannot reside in a database. Yes, I am mainly using FrameMaker as an editor (and for creating PDFs), sometimes also just Notepad++, and also oXygen for some tasks (perhaps I'll use oXygen more in the future...).

What I now need is managing translations. I understand that oXygen's Translation Package Builder allows me to detect which source files have changed compared to a baseline, so that I can update the translation. But I am not sure if that tool will help me if I have translations to more than one language...

Frank



Am 16.11.2019 um 16:41 schrieb Kristen James Eberlein:
Hi, Stefan.
Thanks for pointing me to the Web page; I did not know that XDocs, DITAtoo, and Vasont supported FrameMaker; I was more aware of the fact that neither IXIASOFT or the SDL CCMS product has support for using FrameMaker for authoring.
DITA CCMS
Versions of FrameMaker supported
XDocs
2019 release
DITAToo
2019 release, 12, 11
Vasont2017 release, 2015 release, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.2
(I am leaving out products that are NOT DITA CCMS.)
Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs. Do the above products support that? Is a Server license for FrameMaker required?
-- 
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

-------- Message --------
Subject:Re: [dita-users] Translation management with file-system-based editing/publishing
Date:Sat, 16 Nov 2019 02:27:52 -0800
From:Stefan Gentz via Groups.Io <gentz@...>
Reply-To:dita-users@groups.io
To:dita-users@groups.io


Hi Kris,

"… rules out many of the CCMS solutions."
Out-of-the-box FrameMaker comes with built-in connectors for Adobe Experience Manager, DitaExchange, Documentum, SharePoint, and SharePoint Online.
But there are many more CMS that have an integration with FrameMaker. The (probably not even complete) list can be found here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html

Cheers,
Stefan 

-- 
Frank Dissinger
Documentation Manager
....................................................................
CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH
Address Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany
Phone +49 6182 9626-27 | Fax +49 6182 9626-99
Commercial register Offenbach, HRB no. 21495
Managing directors Bernd Rückert, Andreas Kämmerer, Christoph Thommessen


Re: FrameMaker use with DITA CCMS #FrameMaker #CCMS #translation

Kristen James Eberlein
 

Hi, Frank.


I suspect that the oXygen add-on will help if the following conditions apply:

  • Your source is in a single language
  • You translate to your target languages at the same time

I'd defer, of course, to the Translation Package Builder developers or users for the facts here.


To me, this scenario raises the interesting question of where the limits of using DITA on the file system are ...


Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

On 11/18/2019 5:24 AM, Frank Dissinger wrote:
"Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs."
To be more precise:
I have set up a particular folder structure and some Ant scripts to automatically publish to various outputs (products, variants for OEM partners, languages) from the command line using DITA-OT. And I would like to continue using this method. Therefore my content cannot reside in a database. Yes, I am mainly using FrameMaker as an editor (and for creating PDFs), sometimes also just Notepad++, and also oXygen for some tasks (perhaps I'll use oXygen more in the future...).

What I now need is managing translations. I understand that oXygen's Translation Package Builder allows me to detect which source files have changed compared to a baseline, so that I can update the translation. But I am not sure if that tool will help me if I have translations to more than one language...

Frank



Am 16.11.2019 um 16:41 schrieb Kristen James Eberlein:

Hi, Stefan.

Thanks for pointing me to the Web page; I did not know that XDocs, DITAtoo, and Vasont supported FrameMaker; I was more aware of the fact that neither IXIASOFT or the SDL CCMS product has support for using FrameMaker for authoring.

According to https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html:

DITA CCMS
Versions of FrameMaker supported
XDocs
2019 release
DITAToo
2019 release, 12, 11
Vasont 2017 release, 2015 release, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.2

(I am leaving out products that are NOT DITA CCMS.)

Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs. Do the above products support that? Is a Server license for FrameMaker required?

--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

-------- Message --------
Subject: Re: [dita-users] Translation management with file-system-based editing/publishing
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 02:27:52 -0800
From: Stefan Gentz via Groups.Io <gentz@...>
Reply-To: dita-users@groups.io
To: dita-users@groups.io


Hi Kris,

"… rules out many of the CCMS solutions."
Out-of-the-box FrameMaker comes with built-in connectors for Adobe Experience Manager, DitaExchange, Documentum, SharePoint, and SharePoint Online.
But there are many more CMS that have an integration with FrameMaker. The (probably not even complete) list can be found here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html

Cheers,
Stefan

--

Frank Dissinger

Documentation Manager

....................................................................

CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH

Email frank.dissinger@... | Web www.cgs-oris.com

Address Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany

Phone +49 6182 9626-27 | Fax +49 6182 9626-99

Commercial register Offenbach, HRB no. 21495

Managing directors Bernd Rückert, Andreas Kämmerer, Christoph Thommessen


FrameMaker use with DITA CCMS #FrameMaker #CCMS #translation

Frank Dissinger
 

"Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs."
To be more precise:
I have set up a particular folder structure and some Ant scripts to automatically publish to various outputs (products, variants for OEM partners, languages) from the command line using DITA-OT. And I would like to continue using this method. Therefore my content cannot reside in a database. Yes, I am mainly using FrameMaker as an editor (and for creating PDFs), sometimes also just Notepad++, and also oXygen for some tasks (perhaps I'll use oXygen more in the future...).

What I now need is managing translations. I understand that oXygen's Translation Package Builder allows me to detect which source files have changed compared to a baseline, so that I can update the translation. But I am not sure if that tool will help me if I have translations to more than one language...

Frank



Am 16.11.2019 um 16:41 schrieb Kristen James Eberlein:

Hi, Stefan.

Thanks for pointing me to the Web page; I did not know that XDocs, DITAtoo, and Vasont supported FrameMaker; I was more aware of the fact that neither IXIASOFT or the SDL CCMS product has support for using FrameMaker for authoring.

According to https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html:

DITA CCMS
Versions of FrameMaker supported
XDocs
2019 release
DITAToo
2019 release, 12, 11
Vasont 2017 release, 2015 release, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7.2

(I am leaving out products that are NOT DITA CCMS.)

Frank's requirements are to use FrameMaker for both authoring and publishing PDFs. Do the above products support that? Is a Server license for FrameMaker required?

--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

-------- Message --------
Subject: Re: [dita-users] Translation management with file-system-based editing/publishing
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 02:27:52 -0800
From: Stefan Gentz via Groups.Io <gentz@...>
Reply-To: dita-users@groups.io
To: dita-users@groups.io


Hi Kris,

"… rules out many of the CCMS solutions."
Out-of-the-box FrameMaker comes with built-in connectors for Adobe Experience Manager, DitaExchange, Documentum, SharePoint, and SharePoint Online.
But there are many more CMS that have an integration with FrameMaker. The (probably not even complete) list can be found here:
https://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/cms-integration.html

Cheers,
Stefan

--

Frank Dissinger

Documentation Manager

....................................................................

CGS Publishing Technologies International GmbH

Email frank.dissinger@... | Web www.cgs-oris.com

Address Kettelerstr. 24 | D-63512 Hainburg | Germany

Phone +49 6182 9626-27 | Fax +49 6182 9626-99

Commercial register Offenbach, HRB no. 21495

Managing directors Bernd Rückert, Andreas Kämmerer, Christoph Thommessen


Re: DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

Rodolfo M. Raya
 

Hi Kris,

As an early adopter (from before IBM donated it to OASIS), I can tell you that DITA fulfilled its promises and today it is even better now than in the old days.

As time passed, the standard slowly grew and improved. The need for revisionism came and a much needed lighter version was drafted. There, in my opinion, appeared a problem when writing DITA stopped being an XML only thing. I personally don't like the idea of writing DITA in MarkDown or HTML5. Markdown is a great thing and HTML5 is also a great standard, but XML is a format much better defined for documents that need parsing and further processing before publishing.

DITA adoption is too tied to the DITA Open Toolkit. There are other processors out there but somehow the dependency on the Open Toolkit became generalized. In my view, this has been an obstacle for further adoption.

Your email made me realize that we owe a big thank you to IBM for opening DITA and another big thank you to OASIS for hosting it. 

A bigger thanks to the different chairs of the DITA TC and its siblings for a job well done.

Regards,
Rodolfo M. Raya







On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 12:34 PM Kristen James Eberlein <kris@...> wrote:
It's been 15 years since DITA was donated to OASIS, and next May will be
the 15th anniversary of DITA's release as a standard.

I think it's fair to say that DITA is no longer a "shiny, new thing" but
instead a mature XML architecture.

For those folks who've been around for a while, how well do you think
DITA has lived up to its early claims? Has it addressed problems that it
was designed to solve? Have other problems emerged? How is the landscape
different in 2019 than it was in 2004?

--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)







DITA: Fifteen(+) years old #history

Kristen James Eberlein
 

It's been 15 years since DITA was donated to OASIS, and next May will be the 15th anniversary of DITA's release as a standard.

I think it's fair to say that DITA is no longer a "shiny, new thing" but instead a mature XML architecture.

For those folks who've been around for a while, how well do you think DITA has lived up to its early claims? Has it addressed problems that it was designed to solve? Have other problems emerged? How is the landscape different in 2019 than it was in 2004?

--
Best,
Kris

Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

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